Episode 20: Joyonna Gamble-George, PhD

The following interview was conducted in-class, during the Fall 2021 session of Hidden Figures: Brain Science through Diversity, taught by Dr. Adema Ribic at the University of Virginia. What follows is an edited transcript of the interview, transcribed by Julia Davenport, Tara Andrews, Alexa Ramirez, Sarah Petrus, Aanika Singh, Sydney Wilson, and Krestina Younan, who also drafted Dr. Gamble-George’s biography. The final editing was by Dr. Adema Ribic. The original recordings are available in Podcasts.

Dr. Joyonna Gamble-George is a neuroscientist, artist, innovator, and entrepreneur. She graduated from Xavier University with a B.S. in Biochemistry and Biology. She later acquired a Master of Health Administration from the University of South Florida College of Public Health. She pursued a Ph.D. in Neuroscience at Vanderbilt University. She has won numerous awards for her scientific research and community advocacy. Dr. Gamble-George also co-founded SciX, LLC - a biotech company dedicated to creating science-based and health-related mobile, wearable devices aimed to prevent and manage life-altering events.

Dr. Gamble-George, can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up?

I was raised in rural Alabama, on my grandparent’s farm. As a young girl, my grandparents were very involved in community service. During my upbringing in Alabama, I was in such a remote area that residents lacked primary care. So many times, my grandparents would have to travel 30 miles or more for common things like flu, and they suffered from diabetes and cardiovascular disease. I think these issues pushed me to pursue a career that could shape the healthcare industry.

Where did you get your education from?

I attended Xavier University in Louisiana and majored in the biological sciences. Then, I attended the University of South Florida College of Public Health to obtain a master’s degree in Health Administration. I got my Ph.D. in neuroscience from Vanderbilt University, where I was studying the endocannabinoid system in the context of anxiety and depression.

Were you involved in health research during graduate school as well?

I got to participate in the summer program that was sponsored by the American Hospital Association and I served as a health system specialist at a VA hospital. In this role, I got to come up with solutions on improving poor patient-provider relationships due to understaffing. This program really gave me firsthand experience on how to improve the healthcare industry as I dreamed of doing during my childhood in rural Alabama.

Were you involved in any other healthcare projects?

I got the chance to implement a public health project in a community center in a rural, underserved community in Florida. I identified barriers to healthcare in this community, including people suffering from financial insecurity and health literacy problems. I was a part of a multidisciplinary health team that tried to address these problems, and we decided to implement a health education intervention at the community center. We did this for preteens, as well as teenagers. We had about 40 teenagers, ages 12-16, enrolled in a teen empowerment program. We talked on topics like cardiovascular disease, diabetes, HIV, and dental health. We did something similar for preteens, ages 5-12 who were part of a summer camp. With the preteens, we focused on implementing a healthy nutrition program.

Did you do any service work outside of the US?

I went on a mission trip to the Dominican Republic, and I volunteered with medical, physical therapy, public health, and nursing students, and US Peace Corps. The goal of the volunteer experience was to implement outreach and sustainable health projects for underserved communities in the Dominican Republic. I got to build ventilated pit latrines and provide free anti-parasitic medications in a clinic. I also provided health education workshops on things like hygiene, sanitation, maternal health, as well as other healthcare issues. This experience made me see the importance of connecting people in impoverished areas with healthcare organizations or community-based and patient-directed nonprofit organizations to help them meet their healthcare needs.

What made you decide to go into the field of science?

In high school, I took part in a summer research program through Norfolk State University in Norfolk, Virginia. The program was in the bio- and inorganic sciences which I’m not in right now but it was really interesting. We looking for potential treatments for people that suffer from gout. We were looking at how different compounds would bind together with things that were involved in the buildup of uric acid which is an issue related to gout. This experience pushed me into the direction of science, but I wasn’t at the point where I wanted to be a scientist.  When I completed my Masters of Health Administration degree, I saw an ad for a research volunteer opportunity at a VA hospital that focused on Alzheimer’s disease. I thought “Oh, it must be really cool to study the brain and see how it works”. I applied and that was the beginning of it.

What were you studying at the time?

We were interested in \repurposing drugs for the treatment of kidney cancer-we actually wanted to see if these drugs improved learning and memory using animal models of Alzheimer’s disease. However, the work that really caught my eye was when the lab started transitioning to studying anxiety and depression. After I left that job, I moved from Tampa, Florida to Nashville, Tennessee, and did a short research opportunity at Meharry Medical College. I was a research assistant and a lab manager, and that’s where I started getting interested in drug addiction research. We were trying to understand how methamphetamine affects the dopamine system in the brain using animal models. After that, I went to do my Ph.D. at Vanderbilt and I just really loved it. I think research is really exciting. You’re trying to understand how your cells work, and how the brain works. I don’t anyone is going to be able to figure out everything about the brain - there’s so much to learn and there’s so much we don’t understand.

Do you have any tips on how to stay on track for people that are planning to become involved in the neuroscience field?

When students are doing experiments and they don’t always work out as planned, students might get discouraged. The key is to not get discouraged. Usually, if something doesn’t work out, it either means your technique needs to be altered or maybe you need to have a different hypothesis or approach the question differently - it’s just trying to point you in the right direction. The thing is to never give up, and keep at it. Also, when you’re looking for labs, just really go with what you’re passionate about. Try different things and talk to people about their experiences in the lab.

Was there ever a moment where things looked like they weren’t progressing or something went wrong?

During my Ph.D. program when I was at Vanderbilt, we first started doing experiments with a drug, but we had a lot of issues with the control animals. These mice are usually transported to you before you actually put them in a housing facility and do your experiments on them, so you don’t know what type of stress they’re dealing with due to that process. What I found out was that mice have individual differences, and for people, it’s the same way. We don’t all have the same life experiences that make us who we are today, so we react differently to things in our environment. Because of that, that means that the drug we were giving to the mice didn’t always work as planned. So, what I did was create an animal behavioral test that actually can examine different individual differences in the mice which would help us to see if the drug would work in a mouse with high anxiety levels or low anxiety levels. Even though I got to a point when I didn’t think the drug was working, we were able to figure out a way around it.

Did you ever think you would become an entrepreneur? What was it like developing SciX?

I don’t think I ever thought about becoming an entrepreneur. There were clues that I was on that path because I remember when I was in middle school, for our history class, our teacher asked us to come up with an invention, and the thing I came up with was a portable translator. When I was very young, I used to take things apart and put them back together to see if they could be improved, especially when they broke. I did that with a boombox. I think I definitely was going down that road to science and entrepreneurship.

What kind of wearable device do you have in mind for the stroke and heart attack preventer? Where are you currently in the process?

The type of devices we want to create is actually a ring, but we also know that people might not always want to wear a ring, so we’re trying to make the wearable device in different formats. It can also be just an application that integrates into other wearable devices for people that don’t want to purchase our wearable device. The only issue with that is that if your wearable device doesn't have the proper sensors to pick up on the vital signs we need to make the predictions, then you would have to purchase our wearable device. We are currently trying to raise money for development, and we are tweaking our algorithms to make the predictions. The next step, once we get that done, is clinical trials. We’re still in the development process, but we have at least the bulk part of it already done.

A lot of aspiring physicians are trying to work and help countries outside of the US, but there are many areas within the US that struggle with healthcare access. How important is it to focus future practitioners of medicine to turn their eyes towards the domestic healthcare system?

Even though I knew about the health inequities just from my own life experiences, there’s not a lot of healthcare organizations or community organizations in place targeting them. There is definitely a great need for it. The organizations that are already in place are strained in terms of finances. That’s why it’s really important to volunteer with those organizations.

Why isn’t research going fast enough for neurological disorders?

It is the members of the Congress who approve the budgets for scientists: the money that pays for scientists to have salaries, to have equipment, supplies for their research, it all goes through the federal government. That’s why it’s really important to talk about science to members of Congress to get them to understand that we need more funding, increased funding every year. Once they approve that budget, then on top of that, scientists have to apply for the funding. They don’t always get it. There are private organizations that give funding, but sometimes those organizations don’t give out a lot of funding. That’s one of the issues-there simply isn’t enough funding for science. The other issue is that scientists tend to work in silos, which they shouldn’t. Team science can improve that. Another issue is that the scientific community is not as diverse as it should be. Somebody who might not look like you might have a whole different idea and perspective on how to solve a particular healthcare disorder or disease and it might be the solution that we are looking for.

How do you balance your time with all the things you are working on?

I still struggle to have a work-life balance. I like to create a to-do list every day and prioritize the things I have to do first. So if I have something like sending an email out that will only take a minute, I’ll get that done quickly. I always try to make sure I have enough time for things like writing a research grant proposal that takes a lot of time, so I may have to schedule time. Maybe I’ll spend hours every day working on it. And then when I’m working on something for a very long time, I try to take breaks.

Did you have any women scientists or women, in general, to look up to and that inspire you?

I did not have that many female scientists to look up to. I think my main role model was my grandmother who was a civil rights activist. She participated in the march in Selma and I would actually go with her to register people to vote in a lot of the surrounding poor communities when I was in rural Alabama. Other than that, I would say the one scientist that really helped me out was during my Ph.D. program. She was the codirector for a program for maximizing student diversity at Vanderbilt. I would go to her and sometimes talk about personal things because being a minority at a predominantly white institution can be a challenge. I would talk to her about that and she would also read over my grant proposals and edit them, and just give me overall advice. I was much older when I started my PhD, since most students go from their bachelor’s. I went from bachelor’s, to masters, took a break and then started a PhD. Because I was a nontraditional student, I wasn’t used to getting back into the flow of studying. There were times when I got behind in classes and I had to get a tutor, which she also helped me with as well. She was also a minority, a Native American. It was good to have another minority female to talk to about some of the things I was dealing with and just help me along the way.

With your interest and background in public health, how did you decide on pursuing a Ph.D. rather than an MD?

I initially wanted to be a physician. I didn’t do well on the MCATs. I’m very bad at standardized tests. I was never focused enough to study for the exams. I would just go and take them cold. Sometimes I did well on them, sometimes I didn’t. But I didn’t do well on the MCAT, so I didn’t go to medical school. I went to pursue the Masters in Health Administration degree because I was still interested in being a doctor and my dad told me that getting an MHA could help me down the road. Even though it didn’t put me on the track to become a medical doctor, just being at a school of public health was where I really got exposed to things like sociology, the behavioral sciences, psychology, and occupational health. It really allowed me to see how biology comes together with psychology and all these other different disciplines in really improving people’s health.

Which one of your many roles do you enjoy the most?

I love them all, but I think my best experience was when I was at the University of South Florida of Public Health. I loved the environment. I loved the camaraderie, the collegiality. I was so at peace when I was there and being around other public health professionals. They just see things so differently from basic scientists. They really understand how everything comes together to see the big picture and make a difference in society. The public health field is what I love the most. In a lot of ways, the public health field is still intertwined with my neuroscience research, as well as my entrepreneurship. They both have a health focus on helping people and trying to create solutions that help people that suffer from certain diseases and disorders.

As an underrepresented minority and a woman, how are you able to handle the obstacles that come as an enterpreneur?

I will say as an underrepresented minority, as a woman, I think a lot of it comes down to not internalizing some of the negative things people say and do to you. When you’re really passionate about something, you have to just keep at it no matter what obstacles you face or hurdles you have to jump over. There’s a lot of mean things that were said to me and a lot of mean things that were done, and I just kept my focus. During my Ph.D., I didn’t get credit for all my work. It would make me so upset and I would get sad about it, but the thing is, I knew I had to get my Ph.D., no matter what, because that degree will help me have my own lab. I can establish this lab where I could treat people the way they are supposed to be treated later. To help with that, do things that help you to release that stress. To me, that was drawing and painting or sometimes calling my dad up and just talking to him and confiding in him about things I was going through. No matter how dark and never-ending the path may look, I am telling you, you will get through it. Then you’ll look back at all this, and you’re just going to laugh.

 This interview was conducted during the Fall Session of UVA’s Hidden Figures class in 2021. 

Class roster: Brink, Julia Elizabeth; Abraham, Carly Elizabeth; Rose, Odell Bayou; Kang, Elizabeth; Posner, Chloe Grace; Luscko, Caroline Ann; Pappagallo, Julia Dominique; Ware, Liza Elizabeth; Murphy, Ryan Martin; Faisal, Zainab; Fastow, Elizabeth; Walker, Mary-Catherine; Petz, Kaitlyn Dorothy; Terblanche, Alexandra Savenye; Nguyen, Katie; Guttilla, Gianna Marie; Hoang, Chloe Nam; Grace, Ann Brown; Smith, Charles Cornelius; Sears-Webb, Delaney Jean; Abed, Jamil; Miao, Julia Stephanie; Johnson, Catherine Anne; Kim, Evalyn; Lee, Sarah; Pietsch, Maggie Malia; Cheng, Kaitlyn Jiaying; Freud, Jordan Maria; Patel, Sonia; Silbermann, Katherine Elizabeth; Lumpkin, Justin; Lemley, Rachel Ann; Hall, Maria Elizabeth; Nugent, Elise Genevieve; Limon, Safiye; Mangan, Erva; Ali, Sophie; Muse, Morgan Noelle; Miley, Sareena Elizabeth; Bennett, Bailey Grace; Mollin, Hannah Beth; Nguyen, Daniel Van; Englander-Fuentes, Emilu Maria; Pest, Marshall Sinclair; Mahuli, Rhea Mina; Chindepalli, Jahnavi; Malyala, Meghana; Weldon, Nathaniel Andreas; Aschmies, Lindsay Elizabeth; Chakrapani, Krithi; Heintges, Bella Grace; Baker, Gabriella Christine; Bonsu, Tenneh Ina; Hall, Ann M; Rodriguez, Kaitlyn; Simmons, Emma Isabela; Davenport, Julia Barrett; Andrews, Tara; Ramirez, Alexa Hidalgo; Petrus, Sarah Anne; Singh, Aanika; Wilson, Sydney Paige; Younan, Krestina. 

TA: Kipcak, Arda. Instructor: Ribic, Adema, PhD.