Episode 11: Beatriz Rico, PhD

The following interview was conducted in-class, during the Fall 2021 session of Hidden Figures: Brain Science through Diversity, taught by Dr. Adema Ribic at the University of Virginia. What follows is an edited transcript of the interview, transcribed by Carly Abraham, Julia Brink, Elizabeth Kang, and Odell Rose, who also drafted Dr. Rico’s biography. The final editing was by Dr. Adema Ribic. The original recordings are available in Podcasts.

Dr. Beatriz Rico is a Professor of Developmental Neurobiology at King’s College in London, England. Her research lab studies the molecular pathways that specify the connectivity of neurons found in the mammalian cerebral cortex. By specifically studying the production, response, and failure of these pathways, her lab’s research aids our understanding of neuropsychiatric disorders. Prior to her work at King’s College, Dr. Rico earned her Ph.D. in the University Autónoma of Madrid. She completed her postdoctoral training at the University of California at San Francisco in Dr. Louis Reichardt’s lab. Following her work in California, Dr. Rico started her own lab at the Institute of Neuroscience in Alicante, Spain, which she moved to King’s College London in 2014. Her work at King’s College offers insights into how cortical circuits are created, how they respond to stimuli, and what happens when circuits fail during development.

Dr. Rico, where did you grow up? What was your education like as a child?

I went to public primary and secondary schools in Madrid. The primary school I attended was on the outskirts, in a working-class part of the city. While it is good to have a good education and be in the best area, a good or bad school system will not prevent you from achieving whatever you want to achieve. Everything is in yourself.

When did you know that you wanted to be a scientist?

For me, it was very early. I have many friends who realized it later. As a kid, when I was seven years old, I had a note saying “I want to be a scientist, and I want to cure something.” My parents gave me a rudimentary toy microscope, so I could see things bigger. I was interested in this for a long time.

Where did you go to college?

I went to the Complutense University of Madrid. My university was between the 201-300 ranking in the world, related to the fact that the ranking does not matter. Harvard is number one. Of course, you will have a wonderful education, but this will not prevent you from reaching whatever you want because this is about motivation, independent of where you have studied.

What opportunities did you have at the Complutense University to gain experience?

In my second year, I had the opportunity to enroll in a cell biology department. There were two options, immunology and neuroscience. I did not have the chance to choose but by serendipity, I was placed into neuroscience. I think that immunology is wonderful as well. I started working with Pacini corpuscles, which are sensory receptors we have to detect pressure throughout the body.

How did you choose biology specifically?

I knew that I wanted to do research, but I had to choose how I wanted to do it. As a student, I had to decide whether I wanted to do biology or something on the medical side. In the United States, physicians can do research, but this is not the case in Spain. Due to time spent in clinics, there is not a lot of time to do research. Because of that, the choice was clear (biology). In spite of my parents who said I would not get a job in biology and asked about being a veterinarian or going into computing, I persisted and became a biologist. If you have a passion for what you do, you can reach whatever you want because you will be happy doing what you are doing. This is what I tell my kids. You need to choose whatever you want because you will have the motivation and push yourself forward.

Who were the most influential people in your career?

There are many people that have influenced me, but I want to talk about a few in particular. The first one was my Ph.D. supervisor, Carmen Cavada, at Autonoma University in Madrid. What I learned from Carmen was how to investigate, how to be critical, and how to ask questions about what I was doing. It informed how I should be doing my research. The second person who greatly influenced my career is Louis Reichardt. I worked under his supervision while at UCSF. He taught me that achieving your goals is entirely in your own hands. While I was under his supervision, I started focusing on synapses, which has since become a long-term focus of my work. Lastly, my husband, Oscar Marin, was very influential in my career because of the equality and support our relationship provides me.

What kind of work did you do while pursuing your Ph.D.?

My thesis was about connectivity and modulation in the primate brain. I studied the modulation by monoamines, like serotonin and dopamine, and acetylcholine in the thalamus.

How did you know you wanted to do a postdoc?

For me, it was obvious. I knew that I wanted to keep doing research to learn more things, and I needed to be exposed to things to do that. I started looking at labs, and one thing that was clear to me was that I wanted to be exposed to other environments.

What made you decide to continue your education in the United States?

I knew that I could learn many things conceptually at a number of places, but I wanted to learn a new way of actually doing science in a new place. Coming from a country that does not have a lot of diversity, I wanted to go somewhere with rich diversity because I think that it enriches the field scientifically and also from a personal point of view. You become more mature and open in your way of thinking about people and cultures.

What do you do when you face doubts? How do you work through difficult obstacles?

Louis Reichardt was the first American to climb Everest and K2 without oxygen. In a way, he was like a superhero. When I was in his lab, I was asked to perform tasks that I was hesitant to do. Someone told me that I could not tell him that I was not capable of doing something because he had proven that doing impossible was, in fact, possible. This was the main step in changing the way I approached my work. Don’t put barriers in front of yourself, whether or not you are doing something in academia or elsewhere.

What advice would you give to students pursuing a career in science?

Pursue questions that you are interested in. It is not about what you know or about a technique. It’s about what you want to achieve. Motivation is your strength; do not put barriers on yourself. Your voice/opinion is as important to others. It is not a sprint race, it is a marathon. My good friend and colleague Yimin Zou at UCSD said that to succeed in science, you have to be a brilliant mind, be lucky, or put in hard work, but the only thing you can really control is the hard work. It is something that will help you go beyond what you were expecting yourself to do.

How difficult was your transition from a Ph.D. student to a postdoc?

I was in a small lab during my Ph.D., and I had to jump into a lab with 15 postdocs, 3 Ph.D. students, and several technicians for my postdoc. This could be a threat for some people, but I learned how to be very independent.

What kind of research did you do in your postdoc lab?

I decided to focus on synapses. This was a new topic in the lab as no one else was working on it. In Louis’s lab, I learned about signaling pathways that I didn't know existed. I decided to focus on TrkB and FAK. We worked on two main projects. The first one focused on how TrkB was involved in dendritic arborization, specifically in the cerebellum.

What made you want to become a Principal Investigator?

Some people realize early on in their careers that they want to become PIs. For me, I knew I wanted to do research, but I was not sure about being a PI. Eventually, I began to realize that I wanted to become one because I was independent and had the confidence to generate ideas. I applied for a tenure track at the Neuroscience Institute in Alicante, Spain, so I went back to Spain. This was a good place to start my lab because it was very supportive of many junior people who were starting as well.

How did you go about forming your lab? What did you study?

In Spain, the position itself only covers our salaries, so I had to apply for grants in order to fund my lab. Only after you get a position can you begin to apply. I began to read, think, and outline what I wanted to present. I focused on two main projects that were based on things I finished in my postdoc. That was the start of my lab with two very talented Ph.D. students.

Throughout your research, what has influenced the kinds of questions you ask?

The size of the lab is very important. When you have a small number of Ph.D. students working together, it may be difficult to answer a big question. To generate big questions, you need to have some experience. When I was writing my proposal for a grant from the European Research Council, I needed a lot of time to think. It is not something that happens suddenly, and you need to discuss your ideas with your peers.

How much autonomy do you have over your own research topics?

For small questions, as researchers, we have lots of control over what we study. For big questions, I try to make my contributions about novel ideas and research that I enjoy doing. I get to choose that this is the question that I want to do based on my own interest.

You mentioned that you collaborated with your husband. Did it ever seem like he got more credit in some instances because of differences in gender?

Once in a while, many credits were given to my husband or to people other than myself. When we were moving from Spain to the UK, one comment was made that I got a position because I was his wife. We get this often as women but have to ignore it because it comes from a place of ignorance. We have to fight this; some of my best friends have unconscious bias. Even I have unconscious bias, and we need to highlight it and ask ourselves about it. Do not get mad or frustrated. This will not help. Instead, show them that they are wrong.

How do you deal with unconscious bias?

Four or five years ago, I told myself that I need to be more proactive and aware of my own unconscious biases and it has worked most of the time so far. Sometimes we don’t realize this. I might not realize I have it until someone tells me so. Then I realized we all need to be proactive about recognizing and fighting biases.

As a woman of color, have there been instances where you thought you were at a disadvantage because of your ethnicity? How do you deal with those encounters?

Yes, and this happened very recently. I was in a panel trying to make some points, and no one was listening to me because I was new on the panel, a woman, and had a strong Spanish accent. I had spent time on preparation for the panel, so when men were asking questions to the other people, I said “Well, if you want to hear what I have to say…” in order to be straightforward.

 This interview was conducted during the Fall Session of UVA’s Hidden Figures class in 2021.

Class roster: Brink, Julia Elizabeth; Abraham, Carly Elizabeth; Rose, Odell Bayou; Kang, Elizabeth; Posner, Chloe Grace; Luscko, Caroline Ann; Pappagallo, Julia Dominique; Ware, Liza Elizabeth; Murphy, Ryan Martin; Faisal, Zainab; Fastow, Elizabeth; Walker, Mary-Catherine; Petz, Kaitlyn Dorothy; Terblanche, Alexandra Savenye; Nguyen, Katie; Guttilla, Gianna Marie; Hoang, Chloe Nam; Grace, Ann Brown; Smith, Charles Cornelius; Sears-Webb, Delaney Jean; Abed, Jamil; Miao, Julia Stephanie; Johnson, Catherine Anne; Kim, Evalyn; Lee, Sarah; Pietsch, Maggie Malia; Cheng, Kaitlyn Jiaying; Freud, Jordan Maria; Patel, Sonia; Silbermann, Katherine Elizabeth; Lumpkin, Justin; Lemley, Rachel Ann; Hall, Maria Elizabeth; Nugent, Elise Genevieve; Limon, Safiye; Mangan, Erva; Ali, Sophie; Muse, Morgan Noelle; Miley, Sareena Elizabeth; Bennett, Bailey Grace; Mollin, Hannah Beth; Nguyen, Daniel Van; Englander-Fuentes, Emilu Maria; Pest, Marshall Sinclair; Mahuli, Rhea Mina; Chindepalli, Jahnavi; Malyala, Meghana; Weldon, Nathaniel Andreas; Aschmies, Lindsay Elizabeth; Chakrapani, Krithi; Heintges, Bella Grace; Baker, Gabriella Christine; Bonsu, Tenneh Ina; Hall, Ann M; Rodriguez, Kaitlyn; Simmons, Emma Isabela; Davenport, Julia Barrett; Andrews, Tara; Ramirez, Alexa Hidalgo; Petrus, Sarah Anne; Singh, Aanika; Wilson, Sydney Paige; Younan, Krestina.

TA: Kipcak, Arda. Instructor: Ribic, Adema, PhD.